PERES REMARKS AT THE UN

Peres Delivers Remarks to U.N.
CQ Transcripts WireWednesday, August 16, 2006; 3:19 PM
AUGUST 16, 2006

SPEAKER: SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI VICE PREMIER

PERES: Good morning, and I shall make a very brief introduction.

From our perspective, we think that the present confrontation is not necessarily just between us and the Hezbollah or us and the Palestinians. We see it in the wider context.

We think, number one, it's going to be decided who and what will be Lebanon in the future, a Shiite country or a multinational country. This war is not yet over.

The second is: Will the Middle East be under the spell of the Iranian ambition or is it going to remain Arab and within the Muslim world -- basically Sunnites?
Again, the alternative is Iranian and Shiites.

The third is: Will terror win this battle or not, which is worldwide? And clearly that is the first problem for us about Israel. For us it was the sixth war in 60 years, but contrary to (inaudible) when we were outnumbered and outgunned, this was a war which is more ballistic than territorial. Namely, the human factor played a secondary role to modern technology.

This is the first confrontation between a state and a terroristic organization that is equipped like a state. We estimated that Hezbollah is being paid $100 million a year by the Iranians. They've got the most sophisticated weapons that Iran has or Iran bought from Russia, from China, and elsewhere. They are being trained by the Iranians. We estimate there are over 100 Iranian instructors in Lebanon -- of Hezbollah. And also many of the Hezbollah fighters were trained in Iran and in Syria.

Those are all the problems that we have to face.
PERES: We don't say it was easy. For us, it was difficult, for these following reasons:
A, we weren't prepared for it. To this day, we don't understand: Why did Hezbollah start the attack? What were its purposes?

And now they will have to conclude: What was the damages?
We estimated there was a force of 2,500 Iranians in Hezbollah, fighting. We estimated 600 of them lost their lives. Close to a thousand were wounded.

So we are not so much impressed by the speeches. We look at the facts of life. And then, again, they had an arsenal of 12,000 rockets and missiles, long-range, middle-range, short-range.
They were under the impression that with this arsenal, they could Israel. They fired a third of it, at least, basically, from the short-range because the long-range and the middle-size range were destroyed by our air force. The short-range, we tried to destroy by our armed forces.
For us, we know that maybe the battles are over, but not the campaign and not the confrontation.

Our priorities will be the following: to restore the damage that was done in the upper north of Israel (inaudible) to release our two hostages and, at the same time, to see if we can renew the peace process.

PERES: We are not looking for a military victory. We are looking for the renewal of the peace process.
So if we shall be attacked, we shall fight.
If there will be an opportunity, we shall negotiate.
And finally, at the same time in parallel, we shall try to build a new economic zone of peace common to the Jordanians, to the Palestinians and to us, all the three parties agreed.
We shall do it hand in hand with the United States. We appreciate very much the role the United States played in bringing an end or at least a halt to this confrontation.
On Friday night, when we have decided to go on with the campaign, it looked like the resolution of the United Nations is going to be unacceptable to us, but in a matter of hours it was changed, and we appreciate it.

We recognize the role of the secretary of state and the president in introducing this change that has three unprecedented items.
For the first time, the Security Council, including Arabs, condemned Hezbollah as the aggressor. Never happened before.
Secondly, that Russia agreed to an embargo against Arab countries, against an Arab or terroristic organization. Never happened again.
And the third is that all 15 members voted unanimously to make clear who started it, how to stop it, and what are the obligations of the parties. We appreciated it.
We know now the test will be in the implementation. We shall try our very best to implement the United Nations resolution.

PERES: Thank you.

QUESTION: Sir, before the fighting broke out, Mr. Abbas was prepared to challenge Hezbollah -- I'm sorry, Hamas in its own territories, a mutual recognition with a referendum. Then the attacks came.
What, if anything, is Israel doing to reach out to Mr. Abbas and strengthen his hand for a two-state solution?
PERES: Well, we didn't change our mind. We shall support the establishment of a Palestinian state, as we promised. We intend to leave most of the territories as we promised, in spite of the war. We shall have some problems with the unilateral efforts because Gaza in a way was a disappointment -- shall try to do it bilaterally.
The rest depends upon Abu Mazen. We shall do our very best to support him as a peacemaker -- not as a part of the Israeli government. Actually, before they hijack of our soldiers, Mr. Olmert, our prime minister, told openly and privately to Abu Mazen that he is ready to meet with him and start to consider the release of many of the prisoners.
What's holding back is the failure to try to do it by force by taking hostage our soldier.

QUESTION: What, if any, conversations has the Israeli government had with Mr. Abbas since the fighting began, sir?
PERES: Recently, there were none.

QUESTION: I'm sorry?
PERES: Recently, there were none. The only conversations we have -- I'm sorry.

QUESTION: I'm sorry. There's been none since the fighting began?
PERES: The only one was necessary (inaudible). For example, Mr. Abu Mazen was put in charge of the passages in Gaza, and we are cooperating on that. We're also cooperating in building an economic base, as I have said, jointly done by the triangle -- the Jordanians, the Palestinians and us.

QUESTION: Have you considered the possibility, as a gesture of good will, of donating some of the funds that you will raise, to the people of Lebanon to help them rebuild also?
PERES: You know, we suffered a great deal of damages -- billions and billions of dollars.
In the United Nations resolution, it wasn't said that whoever was damaged, there will be help. All the help is going to Lebanon, so it's started from the Lebanese. We shall do everything we can to facilitate and help to rebuild Lebanon.
I want to mention something that wasn't published; that even during the war, some Arab countries wanted to send civilian aid to Lebanon and (inaudible) during the war.
So, again, our approach will be basically constructive. As much as the Lebanese government and people are concerned, we shall be very careful when it will come to Hezbollah so they won't misuse it to bring in arms.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
PERES: I'm not sure they will be happy if I shall say it.

QUESTION: When you say you're going to everything to facilitate, sir, the direct question was, were you going to give anything to Lebanon as a gesture of goodwill? Was that a yes, sir?
PERES: You know, we have our own agenda. We went out of war, which was costly to us. But there's a lot of possible joint ventures. One of the things that we have learned is to distinguish between financial aid and economic aid.
PERES: We have helped the Palestinians to get, for example, financial aid. But the donor conference came to almost $10 billion, over the last 11, 12 years.
Unfortunately, the aid that was given to the Palestinians brought down Fatah because it created corruption. And we're afraid that Fatah lost the elections, not because of ideology but because of corruption.
So look what happened. We tried to help. And the result was in contradiction to it.
The lesson is: Be careful with financial aid because financial aid means to take the money of the poor people in the rich countries and then (inaudible) to the rich people in the poor countries. So it creates corruption.
Instead, we prefer to build industrial parks, joint ventures on water, on tourism. On all that, we are ready to cooperate.

QUESTION: So the answer to my colleague's question, then, is no, just so I'm clear?
PERES: No to what? We aren't asked for anything to do. You know, we are, as I mentioned, in six years, we had six wars. We never asked anybody to fight instead of us. Our relations with the United States are, from our point of view, of a moving nature.
But we never asked the United States to send soldiers to defend Israel. We don't want any American mother to be concerned because her boy may be in danger because of us.
PERES: We didn't ask for it. And now, with all the damages, we didn't approach the American government, we didn't ask for help. We have to mobilize billions and billions of dollars to enable our people to come back to life.

QUESTION: Mr. Peres, talking about helping Lebanon, is Israel prepared to lift the blockade on Lebanon? Presumably, one would hope -- one would think that to help the Lebanese government get ahead in rebuilding is a good thing. And France, I think this morning, called for a lifting of the blockade.
PERES: Everything which is civilian, yes.

QUESTION: I'm sorry?
PERES: Everything which is of a civilian nature, yes. Everything which is of a military effort, no. We know that the speech yesterday of the president of Syria was a terrible speech.
You know, Syria lost two wars against Israel that they have initiated. And they lost five initiatives by Israel to make peace.
The first was when President Sadat suggested to President Assad to go with him to Camp David and sign an agreement. He would probably get back as Egypt got all of the territories. He refused. He said he has time.
Before it, Mr. Kissinger suggested to have an interim agreement with the Syrians, as it was with the Egyptians. They refused.
Then three prime ministers of Israel actually made a promise more or less to hand over the Golan Heights, if not all of it, part of it. Our late Prime Minister Rabin, Mr. Netanyahu, Mr. Barak and myself, too.
On all that, we got negative answers. President Clinton flew to Geneva to meet Assad. He was sure that he'll get a positive yes.
PERES: I think that a person that lost the two trains, the train of war and the train of peace, cannot be appointed as a conductor of trains. They have had their opportunity; they missed it. And even now, we are telling them, "Look, you want peace? Let's meet. Why are you being shy?"
Sadat wanted peace; he came to Jerusalem. King Hussein wanted peace; we met. Even with Arafat, we met face-to-face.
The only one that to this very day refused to make the slightest move in the direction of peace is Syria. But, instead, he says he will continue to help Hezbollah. What for? And in which way is he going to help them? To terrorize, to fire missiles.
So when it comes to the civilian aid, yes. If they will start to reship weapons, no.

QUESTION: But then that basically means you're going to keep up a blockade by...
PERES: No, no, no, no. We have agreed even during the war to have corridors where people that wanted to leave Lebanon could have left safely. But this time it will be corridors not only for people but also for materials.
We didn't start the war; we don't want to continue it. And we are basically a country that uses the army for defense, not for aggression.

QUESTION: If this conflict is part of the larger battle for the Middle East, as you said at the outset, sir, what's Israel's next step, then, assuming that you can get everything rebuilt?
PERES: There is a quartet of four terrorist groups: two states, Iran and Syria; one state-in-being, the Palestinians; one state within an state, the Hezbollah. We are facing two of them: the Hamas and the Hezbollah.
PERES: We think, when it comes to Tehran and Damascus, the world should lead, not us. Now, again, even if those two states -- and those states (inaudible) -- will not open fire, we shall not open fire.

QUESTION: Can you give us any updates on the release of the soldiers? Do you have anything?
PERES: Yes. First of all, to the best of our information, they're alive and healthy. Second, in the preamble of the United Nations resolution, there was a clear call to release them, without conditions and without (inaudible). We expect that this will be implemented.

QUESTION: Do you have any knowledge that that is about to happen?
PERES: I can't answer the question; we don't have knowledge enough. The problem is if really the Lebanese will fulfill what they said, that the whole territory of Lebanon will be under the control of the Lebanese government, this must include the two soldiers too. And they have to hand it over to us.
Why did they take them hostage? Hezbollah violated the land, has broken the sovereignty, they killed other soldiers. What for? And now they have to give it back.

QUESTION: Mr. Minister, as you know, Jesse Jackson is trying to be a middle man now. He called at the Syrian embassy yesterday. And he's hopeful but being very cautious. He, too, thinks they're well.
Is that going to get off the ground, do you think?
Does that have Israel's approval, his effort?
He says he's willing to go to Syria. And, you know, he's had a lot of success, in fact, in Syria, with a pilot years ago.
PERES: In order to be a middle man, you must have two parties that want peace. I'm afraid he has just one party. And you cannot applaud with one hand.

QUESTION: Does Israel have any regrets?
Or do you think that you made any mistakes in the campaign in Lebanon?
PERES: I think we have discovered some weaknesses. And we are going to correct them.

QUESTION: Such as?
PERES: Such as the exact use of armed forces and equipment, basically.
It came out that the Hezbollah has had more advanced equipment. Like, for example, they got the Chinese missiles against boats. They got the Russian missiles against tanks. And all those sorts of things we can correct and we shall correct it as soon as possible.
We are not going to engage -- that's my hope -- into an internal in-fight.
You know, after a war, people accuse this and that. You know, the past never runs away. You can remain safe with the past. You cannot change the past. So, judging the past, we have time.
On the other hand, peace -- the future is impatient. So we are going to devote all our energy to correct what is possible in the future and not to pass judgment on what happened in the past.

QUESTION: Are you confident, sir, that Israel did everything it could to minimize civilian damage in Lebanon?
PERES: Yes, 100 percent.

QUESTION: One hundred percent?
PERES: I want to tell you, they say 1,000 people were killed. I regret it very much. But among them undoubtedly there are Hezbollah people. Don't forget it.
And then, again, they did something which again is a novelty. They used human shelters to hide arms. And before we attacked, say, a village or a place, we called the people and told them, "Gentlemen, either get rid of the missiles or leave your house." Some of them did, some of them did not. According to international law, it's a crime to use human shelters for an attack.
But I can tell you for sure, look, in war you always have mistakes. The greatest mistake is the war itself. But look what happened in Kosovo. Close to 10,000 civilians lost their life. The Chinese embassy was bombed. I'm sure it wasn't done intentionally. And we tried our very, very best not to hit any civilian person, old or young or clearly not children.
I spoke with many of our pilots. In addition to what the headquarters did, the pilots themselves were extremely careful not to hit civilian targets.

QUESTION: Ambassador, looking ahead, if I may, one of the things I don't understand about the agreement that's now to be implemented is how will sending a force to the south and sending 15,000 Lebanese troops to the south protect Israel against the delivery of weapons through other roads into Lebanon.
In other words, you know what I'm saying, you have a safeguard, you will have a safeguard in the south, but are you just depending on good will for weapon deliveries to stop?
PERES: Well, nothing is hermetic in life, and we don't look upon it as a foolproofed security.
PERES: Southern Lebanon is not a very large piece of land and it will be now full with 30,000 soldiers; 15,000 Lebanese; 15,000 UNIFIL; with added sources of forces from Europe.
The other following changes: This time UNIFIL will have the right to defend itself, which they didn't have previously. The numbers are larger. And also, finally, the Lebanese have to recognize that an army is an instrument of defense, and that the collection (inaudible) so they have 70,000 soldiers. If they want to defend their life, they don't do it for us, they do it for themselves.
Lebanon cannot remain an independent country if they have two armies. So they have their own incentives to do so. But that was our initial demand that, instead of the Hezbollah, it will be guarded by the Lebanese army (inaudible).
This is also the nature of Resolution 1559. And we cannot say (inaudible) that was decided that I'm not satisfied. That could have been done in pragmatic terms and in accordance with the United Nations resolution.

QUESTION: There are several ways in. There's the sea, for instance. There are roads. They're not in the south entirely.
PERES: Well, if we shall be attacked, we shall do whatever we can. And we didn't use our full force.
What happened in the war is that Hezbollah started with everything they had, and we at the beginning have had to analyze: What are they doing? So we started to build our force slower. By the end of the confrontation, Hezbollah emerged weak and Israel emerged strong. It took a month's times to learn the nature of the war and the purpose of the fighting.
But once we did it, we still didn't use our full force.

QUESTION: What did you learn of the status of building up the UNIFIL forces? Have you found -- can you say anything of what you know about the pace of recruitment and putting them in place?
PERES: Well (inaudible) do it relatively in a short while. And also they cannot be a force of observers to report what is happening on the battlefield, but a force that observes the peace -- that the peace will become a reality. And for that reason, they'll have the right of self-defense.

QUESTION: I want a bit more, please, on the...
PERES: Yes, please. I'm sorry.

QUESTION: ... a little bit more, pleas on the overflights that Israel permitted by Arab countries. Do they continue? And can you describe what was allowed to fly over?
PERES: Whenever we are being asked, we agree once we are convinced that this is honest to God help.

QUESTION: In your opinion, have you found the Lebanese government to be cooperative in taking ownership over -- the Lebanese government in taking ownership over Hezbollah's actions?
PERES: What we found during this month is the support of Israel was the greatest we ever had, but the strength of the supporters was the weakest we ever saw. There was a contradiction between the size of the support and the strength of the supporters.
And it's particular true about the Lebanese. They don't (inaudible) Israel. They, too, want to have an independent state. And actually Hezbollah, in our terms, is an Iranian division, serving Iranian interests, in the midst of the life of an otherwise quiet country.
We don't have any historic conflict nor actual disagreement with the Lebanese government. I think that the Lebanese people are a fine people. We can live with them peacefully. We don't have any demand from them. Neither am I aware of any claim they have as far as Israel is concerned. We left it completely.
We may feel a little bit, you know, skeptical about a past slogan that said, "land for peace." Israel gave back all the land. We are not sure that we got back all the peace.

QUESTION: So does that mean, without getting personal about it, but you're identified most prominently -- well, Mr. Barak, too, but you go back much further as determined to have peace, even at the risk of yielding a maximum of territory.

QUESTION: That is, basically, the Palestinians...
PERES: I'd say that you've prepared for me a trap. So, in order to escape it, let me...

QUESTION: It's a preface.
PERES: I understand what you're saying.

QUESTION: Sure. And you know, you're a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Your commitment to peace is well known.
But do you now -- is your advice now not to give up 99 percent of the West Bank and half of Jerusalem?
PERES: No, no, no, no. In spite of this disappointment and in spite of the past, we have to continue with the peace process. I didn't change my mind.
I can say, jokingly, with your permission, that peace is like love. You have to close, a little bit, your eyes.
(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: Could you say how many Arab countries were allowed overflights?
PERES: I wouldn't like to go into it, not from our standpoint. I don't want to embarrass them.

QUESTION: But if Hezbollah has an Iranian division, why, then -- I mean, isn't the logical conclusion of this that the war has to be taken to Iran, eventually?
PERES: I think the Iranians used their division for diversion. What happened is that Mr. Solana, the foreign minister of Europe went to Tehran to get their hands on the nuclear story on July 11.
The campaign of Hezbollah started on July 12. So the Iranians thought that the best way for them to continue and escape the need to answer the call for the restriction on the development of the nuclear bomb was by developing another front.
And now, I think, they feel a little bit alone. I mean, they don't have two fronts. They have just one.
Now, the Iranians will have to answer, gentlemen. And they promised to give an answer by the 23rd, I believe, or 24th of August. So let them do it.
Anyway, we think Iran is a world problem. We are satisfied with the portion of (inaudible) we have. We are not looking for more. We think that the Iranian story and the Syrian story should be handled by the international community, not by us.
Clearly, whoever will attack us, we shall defend ourselves. It's not our purpose. And in spite of all the difficulty we mentioned, historically, and even today, our supreme consideration will be peace.

QUESTION: On the occasion of your 83rd birthday, sir, can you reflect on where Israel is at, trying to make peace with its neighbors?
PERES: It's a tough world. And it includes disappointments and disillusions. But I can say two things clearly, that in spite of us being inferior in manpower and arms, we won all the six wars, different in nature.
For me, the credit belongs to an outstanding young generation, here now, young, courageous people that are really ready to sacrifice their lives. And I'm saying it with deep conviction.
And the second is that, while we have had disappointments and setbacks, at least two things we achieved and which are of historic value.

PERES: One is peace with Egypt. Twenty years ago, nobody would believe that we shall have peace with Egypt. Abdul Nasser was as popular as Nasrallah; was the hero of the Arab world. Who remembers him today? What is his legacy? He brought (inaudible) to the Egyptians to 150,000 young Egyptians losing their lives.
And I listen with respect to President Mubarak who says: My army is for Egypt, not for anybody else. Historic conclusion.
The second is with Jordan. We have a peace, a meaningful peace, even a dynamic peace.
So these two achievements that I wasn't sure 60 years ago that we would achieve.
This started with the Palestinians. The Palestinians until now suffered from their own division, particularly the military one, and for the lack of a leader that could have united them.
I hope you will take it in the sense of proportion. They didn't have a (inaudible). All the time thinking, what would happen to the United States if (inaudible) and not go and says let's take a decision even at the cost of a civil war.
And I know that Lincoln was advised by (inaudible) France not to go for a civil war -- stood out alone. It's tough to do it.
But when you're occasionally tough to your children, you save their lives.
PERES: In our case, on a smaller scale, it's Ben Gurion. We were also divided. We were also different armed groups. Ben Gurion, again, following the example of Lincoln, did the same. He decided that our guns will fire at a ship that was carrying arms and Jews. I was on his side day and night. I can remember it vividly. It was a tough decision alone.
I wish the Palestinians would have it, too, for their own sake, not for us. We don't ask them to serve us. But they have to show a talent to build a state, a talent to unite their forces, a talent to take historic decisions.
So if you ask me for the lessons, they are varied and many. But one thing, you know, I am a mentor of Ben Gurion. I started to work with him. He's my mentor. He's my hero. And from him I learned one thing that I shall never forget, and that is, the highest level of wisdom is the moral choice. There is nothing wiser than to give preference to moral supremacy.

QUESTION: Thank you.
PERES: Thank you very much.
END
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Aug 16, 2006 14:34 ET .EOF
Source: CQ Transcriptions © 2006, Congressional Quarterly Inc.